LVRJ Needs TO GO OUT OF BUSINESS

Harry Reid made the NY Times today. The Las Vegas Review Journal claims he told their advertising executive he hopes they go out of business.

That rag needs to go out of business. The LVRJ 's total dedication to the rabble rousing crazies, the likes of Sarah Palin's teabagger, birthers is just plain scary.

Las Vegas has become one isck, crazy town. I make a sport of printing the vicious, loony comments, but this town isn't "just" corrupt-it thrives on corruption. From the police living in half a million dollar homes to the county commissioners just getting out of prison, it is one scary place.

LVRJ loves stirrin' up the crazies.

I wouldn't be surprised if Harry Reid's comments have been taken out of context.

If they haven't-as the Las Vegas Review Journal would say, "Quite whinin-if you don't like the criticism-just leave the state."

SHERMAN FREDERICK: Enough is enough, Harry

Stop the childish bullying

This newspaper traces its roots to before Las Vegas was Las Vegas.

We've seen cattle ranches give way to railroads. We chronicled the construction of Hoover Dam. We reported on the first day of legalized gambling. The first hospital. The first school. The first church. We survived the mob, Howard Hughes, the Great Depression, several recessions, two world wars, dozens of news competitors and any number of two-bit politicians who couldn't stand scrutiny, much less criticism.

We're still here doing what we do for the people of Las Vegas and Nevada. So, let me assure you, if we weathered all of that, we can damn sure outlast the bully threats of Sen. Harry Reid.

On Wednesday, before he addressed a Las Vegas Chamber of Commerce luncheon, Reid joined the chamber's board members for a meet-'n'-greet and a photo. One of the last in line was the Review-Journal's director of advertising, Bob Brown, a hard-working Nevadan who toils every day on behalf of advertisers. He has nothing to do with news coverage or the opinion pages of the Review-Journal.

Yet, as Bob shook hands with our senior U.S. senator in what should have been nothing but a gracious business setting, Reid said: "I hope you go out of business."

Later, in his public speech, Reid said he wanted to let everyone know that he wants the Review-Journal to continue selling advertising because the Las Vegas Sun is delivered inside the Review-Journal.

Such behavior cannot go unchallenged.

You could call Reid's remark ugly and be right. It certainly was boorish. Asinine? That goes without saying.

But to fully capture the magnitude of Reid's remark (and to stop him from doing the same thing to others) it must be called what it was -- a full-on threat perpetrated by a bully who has forgotten that he was elected to office to protect Nevadans, not sound like he's shaking them down.

No citizen should expect this kind of behavior from a U.S. senator. It is certainly not becoming of a man who is the majority leader in the U.S. Senate. And it absolutely is not what anyone would expect from a man who now asks Nevadans to send him back to the Senate for a fifth term.

If he thinks he can push the state's largest newspaper around by exacting some kind of economic punishment in retaliation for not seeing eye to eye with him on matters of politics, I can only imagine how he pressures businesses and individuals who don't have the wherewithal of the Review-Journal.

For the sake of all who live and work in Nevada, we can't let this bully behavior pass without calling out Sen. Reid. If he'll try it with the Review-Journal, you can bet that he's tried it with others. So today, we serve notice on Sen. Reid that this creepy tactic will not be tolerated.

We won't allow you to bully us. And if you try it with anyone else, count on going through us first.

That's a promise, not a threat.

And it's a promise to our readers, not to you, Sen. Reid.

Sherman Frederick (sfrederick@

Over 3,000 people replied to Sherm's "opinion". How is that for ratings? What is really crazy? They will probably succeed in voting Harry Reid out-only to vanish into nothingness-once again. Honestly, just put Yucca Mountain back on track. Nevada can't get any worse.

Dear Mr. Frederick,

Senator Reid had every right to punch Bob Brown in the gut and then drive his knee into Mr. Brown's nose as he doubled over. Unfortunately, Senator Reid is far too gracious to do what was deserved. I too hope your rag goes out of business. Who cares what your paper has reported in the past or how long the paper has been around. Wow, I am in awe--your paper actually reported the first day of gambling in Nevada. Amazing!. Recounting your paper's long history reminds me of a senile grandfather retelling the same story over and over to grandchildren who could hardly care less. Fortunately, your paper will indeed go out of business--probably sooner than you expect. Even the best papers will continue to struggle in the internet era. A second class paper run by thin-skinned tools like you have no chance at all. So, Mr. Frederick, take your feigned shock and choke on it. No one cares about your opinion, your paper or your indignation. I am sure Bob Brown does indeed toil everyday because he has the unfortunate job of pitching something no one wants to buy. But, if Mr. Brown insists on making his living selling rubbish, he should not be surprised if someone rubs it in his face from time to time. So, not only do I support Mr. Reid's wish to see your paper fail--on a personal note--I hope that your remaining days are spent coming to the gradual realization that you life was spent on something that hardly mattered. The war is over. You and your ilk lost. Good day Mr. Frederick.

Dr. D wrote on August 30, 2009 02:41 PM:Oh America, you are ever so quickly being conquered by the tyranny of the liberal/Democratic hordes. The Titanic is slowly sinking and it those who have elected the anti-American, anti-Christian tyrants to elected? public? office.
Do we as a people not see that the liberal agenda and its minions are rapidly taking our rights, our freedoms, our heritage, our history away and replacing it with asinine nonsense. Reid is among many who are telling us to our faces how stupid we are and how stupid we will be for: electing these liberals and then supporting them by NOT throwing them out of office as the traitors to America that are.
In closing, we have a long way to go...but the pain to endure as America falls will not be easy, especially for those who know the TRUTH and want it.

Senator Edward Kennedy-The death of honor

Senator Kennedy's death is a part of an old parable. Man screws up big early in life -reflective thought and experience propels him towards a change. In this case his values about humanity became the catalyst for change.

His death is not just the loss of a man committed to those less fortunate. It is the death of a generation who believed in the greatness of the US because we were the living breathing essence of the Statue of Liberty.

Perhaps France should bring their tugboats over and haul it back to Europe until, or if we ever learn the lesson of caring for all Americans and not just those in the top 3% of the income tax bracket.

Let us look at what is replacing the philosophy of Senator Edward Kennedy's generation-

We have a Republican Party which believes destroying our government is better than working within it.

We have a "Sarah Palin" party of illiteracy, untruths, malicious bloviations, damaging and yet inviting enough to rally dangerous thinking and destructive actions.

We have the Sanford and Ensigns, financially privileged yet dishonest, self absorbed, shallow, narcissistic, dimwitted and destructive enough to deprive their perspective constituents of the representation they deserve.

On local levels we have the Blogdanovich's, Nevada's Governor Gibbons, and the Nevada's "Happiest mayor", gin drinker and advertiser, former mafioso legal pundit, Mayor Oscar Goodman.

Senator Edward Kennedy's statesmanship in his last years was the little voice the wind carried out to sea, the lifeline thousands needed but could not see, the steadying rudder of a rudderless country.

Like Paul Wellstone, the consciences of our country, those we so desperately need, dwindle, overtaken by a country determined to move, full speed ahead into tornadic winds, standing at the bow, head into the winds, waiting to destruct.

President Obama, as idealistic and determined to Captain this ship away from self destruction, has lost one of his best mates and navigators.

He faces a sea of uncertainty amidst a gale force of ignorance, fear and terrorist tactics from rich corporations, threatened rich white men and angry uneducated citizens.

I will miss Ted Kennedy. As I miss Paul Wellstone, and those before them, the voices of those who believed all citizens of our country deserved to be treated equally, fairly and with compassion.

Las Vegas Review Journal's lust to ditch Harry Reid

Las Vegas Review Journal (RJ as Las Vegans' call it), the epitome of crackpot journalism has right wing nuts salivatin on the front page.

Bias? Racism? Elitism? Suspicion? Paranoia? Anti-government?

You betcha!

Hot coals are burnin where men usually like to scratch when it comes to Harry Reid.

You would think no-man's land Nevada with a population of a little over 2 million (out of 304 mil nationwide) might show a little pride having Harry Reid as one of the most powerful legislators in Congress.

You would be be dead wrong, as national crime statistics show-Nevada is the most dangerous state to live in the USA-has been for the past five years.

Who says crime doesn't pay?

Of course you'd have to understand how the RJ incites those numbers. Last week it devoted an entire front page to illegal immigrants getting medical care from the state subsidized hospital-including names, addresses and diagnosis. The immigrants didn't understand the danger the RJ was placing them in-if you read the comments following the article, you'd know those patients might be better off dying of kidney failure than to leave the hospital.

Brought out all those right wing gun totin nutty white males (80% of the state is white, 51% are male) makin veiled death threats and just about anything else.

Well, if the RJ has its way, Nevada will soon be back to its normal identity-that of an obscure, crazy, off the grid kinda place where the only safe place is a resort casino for the weekend.

At the present time, the country isn't even buying THAT much touted mantra, considerin all the foreclosures, bankrupt casinos , over priced rooms and rumors of no payout games.

Back to the real issue is this-

WHO does Nevada like runnin' their government?

Obviously if gettin rid of Harry is going to make it all better-once again accordin' to the RJ-let's take a look at their endorsements currently in office.

We all know the man at the top of this article. Why that's Jim Gibbons-former inept congressman turned totally inept Governor. He's been chastised for sextexting while at state meetings, his divorce is the stuff of the Enquirer and he bowed out of this legislators budget meetings after recommending cuts in social programs, 18% cuts in teachers salaries and get this-closing down the universities-claiming kids could go to college in other states-He wants to run again-only his approval level is below 10%- at that rating- itjust goes to show ya-he's a boy only a mother could love..

All that makes sense considering Nevada's education level is about as close to a small rock as you can get.

18% of the population hold a BA or above. Ain't that sumpin to be proud of??

Maybe Gibbons will buy bus tickets for that little group-a goin' to school send off preent.

Of course, once educated, we probably won't be seeing any of them return.

RJ continues to shore up Prayerboy cheatin John Ensign. Another one of their proud picks.

Remember, our pious, paryerful congressman who pointed fingers at all the cheatin' sinners in Congress these past ten years?

The one cheating on his wife with his best friend's wife? Mommy and Daddy paying them to go away?

Last week he proclaimed He's right with God-he didn't break any laws..

RJ fans its Las Vegas peacock feathers for the Mayor-Goodman-nowdays, Mayor Goodman is rounding up funding for his pet project-"The Mob Museum".

He wants to honor the good old days when he represented organized crime figures as a lawyer.

I guess he misses those good old days of cash under the table paychecks.

If you have a few hours to read the archives of the RJ you will find some stunningly preposterous excuses, finger pointing, cover ups and actual dishonest reporting to keep these men and other issues alive and reflecting the opinions of this crazy, scary and misleading rag.

Perhaps the obscurity and failure Nevada is slowly sinking into benefits the RJ's purposes?

Who knows?

Until then, RJ's quest to oust Harry Reid is front and center.

Stirrin up the wing nut, gun totin, white males the likes of Timothy McVeigh is bonafide expertise of the RJ. Comment reading after one of it's queasy, racist, bias stirrin articles only reinforces Nevada"s fame as the most violent city in the nation.

Harry Reid's little town of Searchlight is a safe haven for him-I wonder if it will be when the RJ gets done with their infamous trash reportin'?

Aging-Employment-Living Off the Grid

I have so much to ponder these days. I am working in a job which pays 1/4 of what I earned one year ago. It has something to do with the fact I am 56 years old. As of last year no one complained about my work. In fact, until I began applying for jobs this year I wasn't aware of my lack of marketable skills. I have a Masters degree in Social Work and Education. I ran an agency or two and returned to school to become a teacher. I taught school these past seven years. Applying for a job in teaching this year, not one (in 300 applications) school would hire me. I did receive two replies to my online applications(sorry)..

My references are great. Problem is I can't seem to get a face to face interview. With online applications, discrimination is alive and well.

I do not feel bitter. Only challenged. The low paying temp job I am working is actually a job I love working. It is a challenge and most importantly to me it seems to have real merit.

Yet I can't help feel a little disappointed and yes, cynical about the culture of corporate America.

The culture kind of gouges its' own pretty face when evaluating job applicants based on the pretty picture on the page. There is an element of narcissism in the corporate world. The desire to homogenize the working forces. The corporate suits. The huge conference tables. Traditional colors . Traditional work ethics.

I ask? Have these done much to advance the success of our nation?

Isn't this the tradition of the European culture that once ruled our country?

How is it going, England? Any major advances in the world in the past thousand years?

It seems to me that the successes of our nation were not exactly made of corporate culture stuff. If fact, many inventions and creations were made during those "twilight human years" corporate culture deems irrelevant.

I have been mulling this for awhile. I will move off this grid.

Since age 14 I have paid taxes and social security to the US government. I have also paid my share of real estate taxes, state and city taxes. I believed in government structure. I believed in our economic philosophy and while my professions have always been working with those at the bottom of that structure, my goal was always-using my knowledge and expertise to provide advocacy, education and counseling enabling others to reach for the opportunities and goals offered in our culture.

So moving off the grid, for me, means to stop looking for my place on the economic grid and relinquishing any aspirations I have to maintain my citizenry via activism and advocacy.

Oh, I will. as always, continue to be the responsible professional if employed. But my loyalty and belief to a system which counts me out is foolish.

I am on a quest to find a way to earn the money I need to live without adhering to our country's economic philosophy and rules.

I will earn a living .

I recognize I am no longer considered eligible for the country club of the United States workforce.

I will create my own version of work.

My own rules.

Paranoia and suspicion drive Americans madness

"Keep your hands off our health care"-people scream.

What health care coverage?

14.5 million people are unemployed in this country.

In July, people unemployed for more than 27 weeks rose to 5 million. It increased another 584,00-meaning 1 in three people unemployed have been for longer than six months.

I was speaking with a friend about the health care issue this weekend. Her take? Like many-we don't need any death squads like England!

Her son is disabled and on medicaid.

I asked her if he had ever been denied treatment?

"No", she said-but that is medicaid."

"I'm not insured", I told her. I am 55 and working for a government program-hired through a temp agency. It is a government program to help people find jobs. I do not get paid for holidays or

receive health insurance.

For the first time in my life, over 30 years of employment in the US, paying for health care, I don't have it.

People with disabilities and those over the age of sixty five have government health insurance. These are considered, "entitlement programs" .

We take care of these two populations on a national level.

Oh! We also have "socialized health care" for veterans.

What is this madness?

The health care industry has gouged us for years. We hear nightmarish stories about people dying. Death squads already exist. Ask anyone with an HMO. Many people trying to appeal decisions by health care insurers die before they get a chance to receive treatment.

Why is everyone screaming about national health care coverage?

Our country descends into madness.

Ignorance is our enemy. The insurance companies must be gleefully watching the nations citizens descend into Dante's inferno of fear, suspicion and paranoia-shaking heads in amazement!

How can this be so easy?. they ask.

"It is a dream come true!"

We had no idea-the mental instability of the American people "

The rich white man's last hurrah

Unemployment Tears at Our Spirits

Once in my life was I not hired when I interviewed for a job.

After applying for over 300 jobs, with a Master's degree in Social Work and a Professional teaching license in elementary education, I was offered a temp job serving the unemployed for 14.00 an hour.

I talk with despairing people all day long. It seems the more qualified the less chance of finding employment. Even those looking for minimum wage jobs are finding a tough market.

The press writes about the numbers monthly. Media highlights individual plights of job seekers.

Not many write about the slow descent into despair.

How the despair turns into depression and self doubts. How many people-never experiencing job loss historically begin with faith in their skills and the longer the search, the deeper the spiral.

Lifestyles change. Worries about how to pay utilities. Mortgage defaults and homelessness.

The homeless are many but not counted. A physicist having worked for the government many years-moving in with his son and wife. A working couple, having lost their jobs and then their home, moving to another state to live with a family member.

Couples, for the first time in their lives, applying for food stamps and cash assistance when the unemployment stops. Going to job programs which don't have jobs for them either.

Productivity is such an important component of the US culture many individuals brag about the overtime they work, the vacations they relinquish. Often, the first question when meeting someone is , "What do you do?" Not, "what do you do for fun or joy?"

I am struggling with my own feelings about underemployment. Watching unqualified people hired for positions which I know I am very qualified to do. Watching unqualified people hired for positions requiring credentials which they do not have.

I look around and I ask myself-if I have been a productive worker for 20 years, how has that changed in the past year?

I no longer have faith in the system I worked so hard to support. I hear others claim this as well. I begin to question whether it is so important to be productive in a culture that does not support all of its' citizens talents and commitment? Perhaps there are other ways to earn money to pay the bills which isn't a part of our business culture?

Many talented and qualified people are losing hope. The future does not look good for our young adults. The future is bleak for those of color, older adults, new graduates, young teen moms, anyone outside the narrow grid now defining our employed.

It isn't the jobs lost killing our country, it is the killing of our spirits which shakes the foundation of our beliefs in the culture of the United States.

When times are tough, Americans display unmerciful cruelty

August 11th, 2009 by onepooldlady

A single mom and her son got lost in Death Valley while camping. The 8 year old boy died. It was printed in the Las Vegas Review Journal and while it is early in the morning, the following comments begin the thread..you can see where this conversation is going to go..

11-year-old’s death in Death Valley ruled accident

The death of an 11-year-old boy stranded in Death Valley National Park last week has been ruled an accident by the coroner’s office in San Bernardino County, Calif.

Allen wrote on August 10, 2009 11:24 PM:@Questions,

Most places in Death Valley don’t get cell service. Amazing, isn’t it? Sprint won’t build a cell tower to cover areas that may go weeks without vehicle traffic? Shocking, I know.

They had enough water to last them 2 days, max. (Initial reports said she had 24/16 oz bottles.) They weren’t expecting to be out there for more than 4 days. It was inexperience and unpreparedness that caused this tragedy.
ERT wrote on August 10, 2009 11:10 PM:What do you call a doctor who graduated at the bottom of his class?

DOCTOR!
Ask for creditials wrote on August 10, 2009 09:50 PM:If any Dr. license is from an off shore medical facility…move on.
Big red flags wrote on August 10, 2009 09:22 PM:Dave, sweetie heart, the mommy is a registered nurse, working for a hospital in Las Vegas.

I think there are bigger problems here than illegal immigration.

There will be more of her incompetence under Obama’s health care plan.

Even now I won’t let CNA’s, RN’s or Doctor’s with third world names treat me.

I’ve had to many bad experiences with third world named medical staff. No shee-at.

Like the Dr. who hasn’t even been identified by the Desai investigation. But why did I have to go get blood tests…And instinctively didn’t like his medical discrimination. Right back at him, he asked for it, he earned it.

Questions UnAnswered! wrote on August 10, 2009 09:11 PM:Of course it’s an accident, no trauma! Duhh, when you don’t give the kid water and the kid dies of dehydration…what all of a sudden its okay cause there was no trauma.

The mom is a nurse, so she gets paid well…so a phone?..cell phone?
She had GPS, assuming a cell phone, call in 911 and gps location.
Things just don’t add up, but I guess to San BURNadino, a Death Valley Campout in the middle of August is not a question of sanity and pyschological normality!

Dave wrote on August 10, 2009 08:25 PM:And just who paid for this Mexican’s hospital visit? I guarantee you she didn’t have insurance. Throw this broad in prison!! Her stupidity killed her son.

Two weeks ago a child was left in the car seat and mom went into work. She had been rushing around getting her kids to day care, etc and forgot about the child. Yes, it is horrible. It has happened-I have worked in emergency rooms and have seen it happen more than once.

It is a tragic and horrible situation, one in which the parent will punish him or her self far more than any prison sentence ever will-in the fact the suicide attempt rate for parents in situations in which they clearly feel to blame is about 90%

Over 100 comments in the TC Palm about this incident were written and I don’t think Stephen King could have developed a story line as horrible as the voices read in the comments.

Americans have become exceptionally cruel and the anonymity of the Internet has created a frightening culture.

I have to ask-is this who we really are? Or is it bad behavior which can be corrected?

As I was about to write this an article just happen to be written which spoke to my concerns-by the editor of the TC Palm-I share it with you and hope you will think about this and contribute to changing our self destructive and alienating behaviors.

Mark Tomasik: Taking aim at hate-filled rhetoric that poisons, rather than enhances, community dialogue

By Mark Tomasik

Monday, August 10, 2009

Recently I participated in a community panel conducted by a fine Treasure Coast academic institution, The Pine School.

The panel was asked its opinions on a variety of topics, including advice for students as they prepare for college or the workplace.

Among the comments made by two colleagues on the panel — one, a Realtor; the other, a literacy advocate — were these:

Learn critical thinking. Specifically, develop an ability to analyze and reflect upon both sides of an issue.

Respect the office of a political leader. Even if one disagrees vehemently with an office-holder, learn to express your view respectfully.

The wisdom of those remarks resonated with me. I share them here in the hope such wisdom will resonate with those who write hateful letters to the editor and who provide hurtful comments on TCPalm.com.

Free speech is a right of every American. Abuse, however, is not. And, unfortunately, a segment of letter writers and online commenters abuse the right of free speech with remarks whose only purpose is to hurt.

We’ve taken steps in the past to restrict those who abuse others with their opinions. We will intensify those efforts because the level of hate-filled rhetoric poisons, rather than enhances, a community dialogue on issues and scares off reasonable voices from participating in the debate.

As we continue to develop processes for how to facilitate a civil forum for opinion, I will keep readers informed of our progress.

I believe a significant reason for the harsh tone in some letters and comments comes from the example set by the TV and radio entertainers on both extremes of the political aisle who masquerade as political analysts. These blowhards are paid to build audience by topping one another with outlandish comments and by creating feuds. Their interest is in lining their pockets and enhancing their influence by tapping into your emotions and getting you to watch or listen.

Because they try to out-shout each other, draw attention (and ratings) and shock with their words, they have, over time, made their behavior appear, to some, to be acceptable.

I think that has filtered down now to letters and comments. Some letter writers and online commenters believe they, too, have to shock with their words and write outlandish statements in order to get attention. It’s created a level of noise and rudeness that is unacceptable.

We need to change that at this newspaper and Web site. And we will, though it’s a process that will occur in stages and not instantly or all at once.

A reader communicated some thoughts to us on this topic recently. He asked that we not publish his letter, so we won’t. But I will summarize his thoughts here:

We continue to publish letters claiming President Barack Obama wasn’t born in the United States. We know that the claim is untrue. No evidence exists to support that claim. Yet we continue to publish such letters. Why publish opinions we know to be false?

We continue to publish letters suggesting currently proposed health care reform legislation will result in euthanasia of the elderly. It’s untrue. Yet we give credence to this falsehood by allowing letter writers to state this as fact. Why publish a known falsehood?

It’s one thing to publish an opinion based on something that might be true. It’s wrong to publish an opinion that states as fact something that is known to be untrue.

mark.tomasik@scripps.com

The Las Vegas Sun incites the Birthers-again!

Obama needs to show his birth certificate

Owen Nelson, Las Vegas

Thursday, Aug. 6, 2009 | 2:01 a.m.

Are you ready for another round of craziness? This comment in the Las Vegas Sun on President Obama's birth certificate brought out all the colors again-and of course, staying on topic is optional.

I swear, the Las Vegas Sun prints the starter story just to mess with us. Must have been a slow day..Don't forget to look for the clincher comment in every LV Sun comment list(the leave it if you don't like it..kind of like, Where's Waldo!)

The column by The Washington Post’s Eugene Robinson in Tuesday’s Sun makes the claim that “No reason exists for taking ‘birthers’ seriously.” Remarkably, he supports his claim with a falsehood.

He tells us that state officials in Hawaii have produced Obama’s birth certificate. What they produced was a “Certificate of Live Birth,” something quite different from a birth certificate. Perhaps Mr. Robinson should answer this question: If Obama has nothing to hide, why does he not voluntarily release his real birth certificate?

DISCUSSION: 78 comments so far…

By indythinker

8/6/09 at 6:25 a.m.

Suggest removal

I've asked that question a dozen times and I have been told everything from "I wouldn't either to it's none of my business." Frankly, I disagree.

By AgMallard

8/6/09 at 6:37 a.m.

Suggest removal

Dude let it go. Or is this hard as does our leagally elected President represent a moment in history you are threatened by? First non-white guy. These stupid myths are simply a proxi for race as is the whole Muslim thing.

By mschaffer

8/6/09 at 6:42 a.m.

Suggest removal

Why is the Sun wasting everyone's time printing this cranks letter? Are they reminding us that a portion of our population has mental illness?

Given the number of times President Obama has had to prove citizenship in the past (ever try to attend college indythinker???) you nuts need to get a life.

By SgtRock

8/6/09 at 7:10 a.m.

Suggest removal

At least nobody made the claim that Obama orchestrated a terrorist act on US soil or knew about it before hand and did nothing.

God forbid that any crazed dumb nuts would make such claims.

By DouglasDemocrat

8/6/09 at 7:29 a.m.

Suggest removal

"God forbid that any crazed dumb nuts would make such claims."

Hey, those "dumb nuts" are just that - DUMB. And I don't care which side they're on.

Did the Bush Administration fall asleep on the job? Yes - they got a intelligence memo titled "Bin Laden Determined To Strike In U.S." and pretty well ignored it. Even the 9/11 Commission called them on that.

But to claim that they knew the specific target or had a hand in it? Come on, that's another one of those conspiracy theories that would require thousands of people with absolutely no leaks.

Just like this one - a certificate of live birth is, for all intents and purposes, a birth certificate.

But I'll tell you what - you call up the state records office for whatever state you were born in and ask them to send you a copy of your original birth certificate. See what kind of response you get.

By JohnF

8/6/09 at 8:33 a.m.

Suggest removal

Would Mr. Nelson care to explain what the difference is between a birth certificate and a certificate of live birth?

When I sent away to the state of Connecticut for a copy of my birth certificate a few years back, they sent me a "certificate of birth." If that is not the same thing as a birth certificate, how can I prove that I am indeed an American citizen?

Fortunately, the State Department agreed that the document was proof of citizenship and I was issued my passport. I wonder if they'd give me the passport today now that Mr. Nelson has told them I didn't really provide proof of citizenship?

Birther morons.

By Teaser

8/6/09 at 8:34 a.m.

Suggest removal

It was in the best interests of the Bush/Cheney administration to get McCain elected. Are you telling me that they - in charge of all intelligence agencies at the time (not to mention any connections still held by Bush Sr.) - would not have jumped at the chance to discredit Obama's birth status? It would have been the fastest, easiest solution to their problem.

By Jay Brice

8/6/09 at 8:36 a.m.

Suggest removal

This is to Owen Nelson:

Okay, what IS the significant distinction between a "birth certificate" and a "certificate of live birth" in Hawaii? Seems like a distinction without a difference to me.

By scott.swank

8/6/09 at 9:06 a.m.

Suggest removal

You blithering idiot. A "certificate of live birth" is what Hawaii calls a birth certificate.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/...

By rumrunner

8/6/09 at 9:22 a.m.

Suggest removal

If Obooma wants to end all this its as simple as him just pulling it out shutting them up?Whats he really got to hide???

By DouglasDemocrat

8/6/09 at 9:32 a.m.

Suggest removal

rumrunner, he's already "pulled it out". Factcheck.org and World Net Daily both have personally inspected it and decalred it authentic. Both the Governor of Hawaii and the Director of Hawaii Department of Health have stated they have the original on file and it is authentic as well.

What more is needed? An 8mm film of his mother giving birth while Don Ho sings "Tiny Bubbles" in the background?

By FROMNYC2LV

8/6/09 at 9:40 a.m.

Suggest removal

Many states have changed the format on BCs. When I was born they took a picture of a "chalkboard" where all my info had been written in on. My original copy has a raised seal. Requesting a copy today, I'd get a "cert of live birth" on a generic form on a blue background with ONLY my parents names, my name and dob on it. My original has my dr, the nurse, hospital and serveral other pieces of info.

By SgtRock

8/6/09 at 9:54 a.m.

Suggest removal

"But I'll tell you what - you call up the state records office for whatever state you were born in and ask them to send you a copy of your original birth certificate. "

I have a copy of my original birth certificate (they keep images of the original) from North Carolina.

In fact, the only legal form of a North Carolina birth certificate is a copy of the image of original birth certificate.

In 2001, Hawaii decided to destory all the original copies of the birth certificates. Now, they just print a form that is off a database. The original signatures by the parent(s) and the doctor are gone as well as other information that was put on the form but not carried over to the database.

I think the newspaper listing of his birth is good proof that he was born in Hawaii.

He probably has a copy of the original birth certificate. He has chosen not to release that or even say if he has one.

He also has choosen not release his records from Columbia even though he has released them from Harvard.

What is he hiding about Columbia?

By DouglasDemocrat

8/6/09 at 10:07 a.m.

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"What is he hiding about Columbia?"

What's John McCain hiding about his time at the Naval Academy?

See, I can play this game too.

By henderson

8/6/09 at 10:14 a.m.

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Doug brings me to another point,

Al Quada attacked us or our interests at least 5 times, with another 3 attempts during Clinton's administration. Clinton also was offered Bin Laden by the Saudis and he refused, allowing him to go to Afghanistan and plot 9/11. 9/11 took years of planning, yet everyone wants to blame Bush who had only been in office 7 1/2 months. Obama has been in office 6 months now, when do you think he'll quit blaming Bush for everything?

Obama obviously doesn't care to make this right, or he would have presented his birth certificate already.

By mschaffer

8/6/09 at 10:31 a.m.

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Hi DouglasDemocrat,

I just got the biggest laugh out of your Don Ho "Tinny Bubbles" comment and appreciate that you have given the cranks all the respect they deserve.

Thank you!

By mschaffer

8/6/09 at 10:33 a.m.

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henderson,

The story about the Saudis and Bin Laden is just that, a story told by conservatives to shift blame from Bush the Incompetent to President Clinton.

You will sway no one that doesn't already believe this nonsensical story so give it up.

By SgtRock

8/6/09 at 10:45 a.m.

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"What's John McCain hiding about his time at the Naval Academy?

See, I can play this game too."

Both man if they want to be the leader of the USA should release all college records.

By henderson

8/6/09 at 10:53 a.m.

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mschafer, I'm not sure what story you're talking about.

By stevem

8/6/09 at 10:59 a.m.

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the people that keep pushing this issue are to the right what the 9/11 people are to the left.

both just make their "cause" look moronic.

why WOULD obama release it?

the longer he goes without showing it, the longer he can make these people...and the conservative movement look like freaks.

DROP IT ALREADY!

By mschaffer

8/6/09 at 11:02 a.m.

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henderson,

Your post above alluded to the supposed fact that the Saudis offered Bin Laden to Clinton but this was nonsense.

By crackedbeak

8/6/09 at 11:08 a.m.

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I just figured out why henderson wears the tinfoil hat, to conceal her hood. The birthers are not interested in a certificate, they just can't handle that we have a black man as President. It used to be you had to go down to the park to find the brain damage brigade, standing on their soapbox spouting their bile and hate. Now it's on every channel and every computer screen. The shrub was still blaming Clinton policies in October of 2006, two years into his second term. Distract and distort is the mantra of the right wing, do as we say not as we do. Look forward to beating your pants off in 2010.

By mikegino

8/6/09 at 11:15 a.m.

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Answer: Because its in Kenya!

By henderson

8/6/09 at 11:23 a.m.

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Even if you are right, Clinton had 8 years to capture or stop Bin Laden, who had struck at least 5 times.

Yet George Bush who had been in office just 7 1/2 months, was supposed to capture or stop Bin Laden from carrying out an attack that was being planned for years.

It's a very ironic double standard you have.

By rumrunner

8/6/09 at 11:26 a.m.

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If he has produced anything,than why is it still comeing up?Im neither repooplican,nor democrap,but i saw through this man before he even took office! Just look at whom he put into his cabinet,and whom is really running this country! Uncle Harry,and aunt Polosi are gonna run us right into world laughter!!!

By mschaffer

8/6/09 at 11:28 a.m.

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Bush and his appointees ignored and shunted aside Richard Clarke. Not only did they not listen to him they were incompetent about running the government in general.

Apparently, after 9/11 Bush the Incompetent lost interest in Bin Laden while playing with the shiny toy known as Iraq.

The first attack on WTC was prosecuted effectively by the Clinton Administration.

Now name each of the five attacks and let's explore what was or was not done.

By DouglasDemocrat

8/6/09 at 11:41 a.m.

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"If he has produced anything,than why is it still comeing up?"

Because apparently a document that was good enough for him (or any other citizen) to get a U.S. Passport, or enroll in college, isn't good enough.

By Auslander

8/6/09 at 11:47 a.m.

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Obama has already admitted that he was born on the planet Krypton. What could be more powerful than this voluntary admission?

By mikegino

8/6/09 at 12:26 p.m.

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Because its in Kenya with the rest of his hardly working family!

Is the planet Krypton in the same Galaxy as Kolab?

I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm glad he's out there looking out for us. No, I don't meam Obuma...I mean Jeff Lebowski, the Dude!

By henderson

8/6/09 at 1:11 p.m.

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mschaffer,

I don't need to name each of Al Quaeda's attacks, the the information is widely available. Look them up you lazy slob.

Typical liberal, "do everything for me."

By mschaffer

8/6/09 at 1:47 p.m.

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henderson,

You are a typical name calling conservative who makes accusations and refuses to back it up with data. YOU made the claim regarding the attacks, YOU show the evidence.

By henderson

8/6/09 at 2:39 p.m.

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Now I'm "claiming" Al Qaeda attacked us before 9/11? It is a well known fact. Are you seriously telling me that you are unaware of this?

I also "claim" the Earth is round. I also "claim" the ocean is deep. I also "claim" the sky is blue.

By gmag39

8/6/09 at 2:52 p.m.

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Did you know all birthers are from Uranus?

By LasVegasRocks

8/6/09 at 3:03 p.m.

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Until each and every "birther" has:

* seen

* touched

* smelled

* heard read to them ('cuz I don't believe "birthers" can read)

and

* tasted (yep, tasted)

Obama's birth certificate, they will not be satisfied.

"Birthers" are the best antidote to the return of republicans.

By dipstick

8/6/09 at 3:04 p.m.

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in reading these threads i can safely assume that the vegas heat is starting to affect you guys; go ahead, turn on the air conditioner to 'high' and for crying out loud 'chill out'!

By mschaffer

8/6/09 at 4 p.m.

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henderson,

I have not disputed that there were attacks pre 9/11. You claimed there were five attacks prior to 9/11. Detail them.

By henderson

8/6/09 at 4:49 p.m.

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12/1992: a bomb went off at the Gold Mohur hotel, where U.S. troops had been staying while en-route to Somalia, though the troops had already left when the bomb exploded. The bombers targeted a second hotel, the Aden Movenpick, where they believed American troops might also be staying. That bomb detonated prematurely

2/1993: Bombing of World Trade Center;

10/1993: Killing of U.S. soldiers in Somalia.

6/1996: Truck bomb explodes outside Khobar Towers military complex in Saudi Arabia; 19 American servicemen killed, hundreds of others injured.

8/1998: Bombing of U.S. embassies in East Africa; 224 killed

10/2000: Bombing of the USS Cole in port in Yemen; 17 U.S. sailors killed.

I put this together in a hurry. There are also a ton of failed attacks or thwarted attacks during this span. I don't believe this is even a full list.

By getalife

8/6/09 at 5:55 p.m.

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OK, let me try a to inject a little sanity into this conflagration.

I did not vote for this Obama character and have posted many times my disdain for him and his ilk, but "birthers", let it go. You are starting to look like you all took the small bus to school and your ignorance is showing.

What is next? The moon is really made of cheese. Is there really a secret coded message that spells CHANGE but actually in xygorkin means armagedden.

As for you Gmag, I think I blew a snot bubble I laughed so hard.

By indythinker

8/6/09 at 6:12 p.m.

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mshaffer: "Given the number of times President Obama has had to prove citizenship in the past (ever try to attend college indythinker???) you nuts need to get a life."

Gee thanks for that!!! Been to college and graduated not once, but twice, working on a third time. So yes, I can read and think for myself and amazingly, ask questions once in a while.

Furthermore, I have to wonder about who isn't interested in what "their" president did while in college or law school or whatever! He runs the damn country...it's our right to know whether you agree or not. And, with all his campaign BS...excuse me, rhetoric....about transparency, I think it is questionable that he WON'T release any records. But, of course the liberal left is so desperate for "change" they're selling their souls to the Devil and don't even realize it.

By gmag39

8/6/09 at 6:27 p.m.

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'pologize for that, getalife.

By GordonShumway

8/6/09 at 8:09 p.m.

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indythinker: I don't know what dark secrets you're looking for in Obama's educational history. It looks pretty impressive to me but probably you see it as getting a free ride via entitlement programs for black people.

Following high school, he moved to Los Angeles in 1979 to attend Occidental College. After two years he transferred in 1981 to Columbia University in New York City, where he majored in political science with a specialization in international relations and graduated with a B.A. in 1983.

Obama entered Harvard Law School in late 1988. He was selected as an editor of the Harvard Law Review at the end of his first year, and president of the journal in his second year. He graduated with a Juris Doctor (J.D.) magna cum laude from Harvard in 1991. Obama's election as the first black president of the Harvard Law Review gained national media attention.

I guess you would like a notarized copy of his grades? It doesn't compare to Sarah Palins educational accomplishments but you can't have everything.

By mschaffer

8/6/09 at 11:57 p.m.

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Now henderson,

Given that the blind sheik is now in prison for the 93 bombing prove Bin Laden was behind that attack.

For a more nuanced view of reality here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qaeda#19...

By mschaffer

8/7/09 at 12:18 a.m.

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indythinker,

You went to college? It doesn't show at all!

By indythinker

8/7/09 at 6:10 a.m.

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"indythinker,

You went to college? It doesn't show at all!"

Because I CHOOSE to decide for myself? Unlike the "liberal elite...(notice I didn't include you mschaffer because I am of the opinion that just being a b*tch doesn't necessarily gift YOU with intelligence.) You and the Pelosi's of the world can "kiss my grits."

That's the beauty of this country isn't it? You can ask questions freely without fear of retribution aside from some small-minded bloggers like yourself who think their opinion is the only opinion. Can I tell you...you are WRONG! You have missed the point again. WHY?

Why don't you take your BS in Liberal Womens Studies like a good little follower and shove it...right after removing your head. Judging by your constipated attitude, there's room for nothing more. Two can play your nasty game although you are MUCH better at it than I.

And, Gordon...I can read just fine and could cut and paste exactly as you have. Forgive me for NOT taking your word or anyone elses at face value anymore. I'd like to see with my own two eyes thank you very much!

By henderson

8/7/09 at 6:57 a.m.

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12/1992: a bomb went off at the Gold Mohur hotel

10/1993: Killing of U.S. soldiers in Somalia.

6/1996: Truck bomb explodes outside Khobar Towers

8/1998: Bombing of U.S. embassies in East Africa; 224 killed

10/2000: Bombing of the USS Cole

There, I took that one off the list for you. What did Clinton do in 8 years? Yet Bush should have solved the problem in 7 months?

By Van Guard

8/7/09 at 7:48 a.m.

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Actually, I think the earth is more oval than round. Yes, the ocean is deep, but it can be shallow in spots. And I'm not so sure the sky is blue, but it appears that way to the eye. Outside of that, henderson does make a few valid points.

By mschaffer

8/7/09 at 7:54 a.m.

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I am amused that indythinker thinks I am a woman. Shows the quality of thinking going on there clearly.

henderson,

President Bush didn't solve the problem in eight years much less 7 months. You wouldn't understand what President Clinton was doing so why bother.

You know there is a whole history of terrorism earlier than 1992 you seem to have left out...I wonder why?

By indythinker

8/7/09 at 7:56 a.m.

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Keep it up guys.... Sometimes I feel like it's a useless battle the way these liberal's parade around in all their "unjustified" superiority.

And sometimes when I read things like this... I feel like there is still hope for the America that we all know and love...despite her many faults.

"Hawaii state Sen. Will Espero, a Democrat, has confirmed plans to introduce legislation through which the state's lawmakers would force the public disclosure of all President Obama's birth documents held by the Hawaii Department of Health, including President Obama's long-form original birth certificate."

By LV4LIFE

8/7/09 at 8:01 a.m.

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What a bunch of clowns! Get over it! Your guy lost and nothing you can do or say will change that. Some people are like pit bulls, they lock their jaws into something and never let go until you shoot them in the head.

By lvmachead

8/7/09 at 8:11 a.m.

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You people made my day. I needed a good laugh.

By mschaffer

8/7/09 at 8:25 a.m.

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indythinker=University of Phoenix?

By indythinker

8/7/09 at 8:26 a.m.

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"I am amused that indythinker thinks I am a woman. Shows the quality of thinking going on there clearly."

Was going off an earlier post from ages ago... if I'm wrong...oops! Please reinsert correct word from my earlier post...

By indythinker

8/7/09 at 8:29 a.m.

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mshaffer=University of the Eternally Sad, Rejected and Pathetic?

By LV4LIFE

8/7/09 at 8:31 a.m.

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Ha, ha! Indythinker= Clown college. Sorry, couldn't resist joining in on the fun.

By indythinker

8/7/09 at 8:32 a.m.

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"What a bunch of clowns! Get over it! Your guy lost and nothing you can do or say will change that. Some people are like pit bulls, they lock their jaws into something and never let go until you shoot them in the head."

Our guy didn't lose...we had no guy!

A country filled with 300 million Americans and the best we could do was an over the hill, out-of-touch ex-POW, or a junior senator without experience, a questionable voting record,and questionable personal acquaintances...

Right...

By indythinker

8/7/09 at 8:41 a.m.

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lV4life: you should have tried harder...to resist that is.

By henderson

8/7/09 at 10:10 a.m.

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I didn't go back further than that because my point was that Bush was supposed to stop Al Qaeda in 7 months when Clinton did nothing in 8 years. So it's been about 6 months of Obama, it's almost time to stop whining about Bush.

In 6 months Obama has passed the "stimulus", Cash for Clunkers, extended mortgage credit, put together a plan for socialized medicine, passed crap & tax, and quadrupled the deficit.

I realize this gives you libs great joy, but he spent more time mulling over what dog to get his kids than he did on any one of these important decisions.

Obama can't continue to blame Bush, he may have inherited a bad economy, but he needs to take responsibility for the changes he's made, the money he's spending, and whether or not his policies work. This economy is his now.

By indythinker

8/7/09 at 10:18 a.m.

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Henderson...you will never win this arguement with these "highly enlightened" people. Gotta hand to you for trying though!

By LV4LIFE

8/7/09 at 10:21 a.m.

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AAAh Spank me and call me Palin! 2012 You betcha!

By vegasstudent

8/7/09 at 10:33 a.m.

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Owen's letter would be funny if it weren't so pathetic. Yes, someone posted fake birth announcements in Hawaii those many years ago just hoping that baby would grow up and be able claim U.S. citizenship and become President. Right. And now the state of Hawaii Department of Public Records is in on the deal verifying the live birth in Hawaii. What a plot - just ingenious.

By edgewise

8/7/09 at 11:52 a.m.

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Here's a thought: why don't the birthers prove that Obama's mom was in Kenya during his supposed birth there? Where's the travel documents, the plane tickets, proof of her visit?

They have nothing, just wacky paranoia.

By jaesun

8/7/09 at 2:12 p.m.

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the people blaming bush for not doing anything about 9/11 have as much clout as those people blaming obama for the current economy.

Bush got the memo about the attack and didn't do anything to prevent it

==

Obama knew that the economy was going bad and didn't do anything to prevent it

and mschaffer, obama won't fix terrorism in 8 years ever. no president will.

and any conspiracy theorists out there who would think the Gov't did it themselves or had a hand in it, LOL@You

And yes, this whole Birther movement or whatever it is, is retarded. and Yes, I am a Republican

By mschaffer

8/7/09 at 3:42 p.m.

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jaesun,

Given that terrorism has been around since the dawn of civilization I never thought any president could solve it.

henderson,

the fight in Somalia in 93 had nothing to do with Bin Laden.

By formervegas76

8/7/09 at 3:58 p.m.

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right on mschaffer- don't waste your time with loonies like by buddy henderson. henderson, we'll never agree but have a great weekend.

By henderson

8/7/09 at 4:50 p.m.

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mschaffer, you are incorrect.

By dipstick

8/7/09 at 7:57 p.m.

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now its easy to see why vegas is underwater.

By getalife

8/7/09 at 8:39 p.m.

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mschaffer, the fight in Somalia had everything to do with Bin Laden and Al Queda. I know you will want proof because your lazy arrogant self can only shoot barbs; yet cannot figure out how to use google. Amazing!

You were too busy worrying about stupid things like man made global warming or whatever BS you thought back then.

For someone who regularly tears down conservatives you really are quite the drama queen; maybe that is why henderson was confused.

By lisa80268

8/7/09 at 8:55 p.m.

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OMG--you people are soooo STUPID! STUPID! CRAZY! I wish I could leave this pitiful country. I'm embarrassed to walk among you idiots.

By JahReb

8/8/09 at 1:38 a.m.

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getalife, you seem to be the village expert. Explain to us uninformed ones about the relationaship between Arbusto and Binladen Oil????

And who was that Einstein that traded Sammy Sosa about 500+ home runs before he became Sammy Sosa again?

See...two can play the stupid, 2nd grade gotcha game.

By caroleejam

8/8/09 at 7:53 a.m.

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If you really ask yourself, "Why am I wanting to see a birth certificate all of a sudden?" The answer has to be, "Because that's what a huge crowd of people are also doing this week".

No name calling necessary to see this.

By getalife

8/8/09 at 1:20 p.m.

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JahReb, so are you denying that Al Queda received huge amounts of money from Bin Laden?

Here is an excellent tip that will help you in life; Do not compare funding terrorism to trading baseball players, unless of course you are equating taking steroids to a form of domestic terrorism.

I believe you use the phrase; stay classy.

By mschaffer

8/8/09 at 3:41 p.m.

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henderson,

I might be incorrect about Somalia although the sources for his involvement in that Bush Sr. inspired debacle are shaky.

By qwill

8/9/09 at 7:39 a.m.

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Why would they want to find/kill Bin Laden? If they did then they would no longer have a reason for staying in Afgan/Iraq.

By henderson

8/9/09 at 8:06 a.m.

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mschaffer,

Not to beat a dead horse, but you've still given no explanation as to how George Bush should have prevented 9/11 after just 7 months in office, when Clinton had 8 years, multiple attacks, and did nothing.

By henderson

8/9/09 at 9:38 a.m.

Suggest removal

lisa,

No need to "wish you could leave or be embarrassed" any longer.

It's still a free country, meaning you're free to leave if you hate it so much.

Happy travels.

By cnev

8/9/09 at 6:30 p.m.

Suggest removal

Ahh!The "free to leave" mantra.

What a perfect ending to these comments! Thanks for the great laughs!

I just love Las Vegans-

do it again, Sun-do it again!

The Suckers behind the Angry White Men

As a social worker in grad school I studied many child development theories.

Watching the "Tea Parties", the "protests" over health care and the angry white men interviewed on television, with red faces, shouting, indignant, one theory sticks in my mind.

Expect a negative behavior to increase before it is extinguished when you set boundaries with a young child.

A child exhibits a behavior you want to stop. You say no and remove the child from the behavior. The child will inevitably return to do it again. Often times it will become a power struggle.

The answer is to divert the child. The child may return to the spot and the behavior at a later date and the same process is repeated. Eventually the behavior s diminished and eradicated.

The angry white men in congress are in the last throes of their petulant, spoiled little boy behaviors.

The behaviors are increasing and exacerbating.

For example;

"You have some splainin to do"-totally unacceptable and racist behavior on the part of an educated, grown man. A grown up should have removed him from the situation-

The "Tea Parties"-look around. Angry white men with signs during the worst economic times in our lives-protesting taxes which have not been raised.

The temper tantrum is someone else has the ball and they don't like it. Interrupt the game by calling names and diverting attention.

The insanity of it all has me shaking my head in wonder.. The oldest primitive responses in behavioral science are played out for all to see and no one sees them.

President Obama's birth certificate elicits crazy behavior. For those who want to believe no amount of proof will satisfy them. Who carries this message forward? Who encourages this behavior? The same angry old white men who, behind the scenes, tap into that two year old boy behavior-no one can make me change-I won't do it-I won't do it!"

Ironically, this is the legacy of the Baby Boomer generation.

Look around you. Health Care Corporations, Insurance companies, oil and energy companies, utilities, Wall Street, banks, mortgage companies-all owned or run by angry white men in their sixties.

Who are the talking heads for the angry white man being told no? Rush Limbaugh, Lou Dobbs, Bill O'Reilly, Glen Beck, -check out their ages..

News media? Owned and run by many of the Baby Boomer generation.

Government? Look at those having the temper tantrums?

Makes one wonder if the Baby Boomers sincerity of the sixties-for equal rights, desegregation, equal pay and free speech weren't really just throwing big temper tantrums because they could.

Now the Generation of Baby Boomer males fight the dirty fight.

Why?

Because they think they can get away with it, once again.

Las Vegas homeless meets the NY Times

Las Vegas Wash Homeless

(New York Times description of above picture)

Some of the Las Vegas homeless resort to living in a maze of underground flood channels beneath the Strip. There they face flash floods, disease, black widows and dank, pitch-dark conditions, but some tunnel dwellers say life there is better than being harassed and threatened by assailants and the police.

Las Vegas is never far from the minds of reporters. Sadly, it is a microcosm of traits the rest of the country would rather not own up to.

Historically the city liked to hide the homeless. It is bad for the image. Tourists don't want to come here to lose money from tight slots machines only to see the results of compulsive gambling on the streets.

Recently a man shot himself in front of the Las Vegas sign.

Pretty symbolic.

Homeless living in the washes is nothing new-in fact it has been an address for the homeless for many years. You can follow the path of the homeless by following the empty shopping carts from the side of the road to the wash. Homeless individuals use them to carry their belongings.

While my son was attending school in Las Vegas for EMT training he worked at a take out pizza place next to a wash. At night when he cleaned up, he would save the leftover pizzas and rather than throw them out place them in a box and leave them on the top of the dumpster. The homeless men who lived in the wash would come up and retrieve them.

One day the police came to the store asking him questions.

Later he told me about it-tearfully. Someone had murdered them.

It never made the paper and no one was arrested.

What's So Great About Private Health Insurance?

Nichael Hiltzik Los Angeles Times

What's so great about private health insurance?

The bloody battle in Congress over a 'public option' ignores the insurers' role in creating the nation's healthcare crisis and their efforts to throttle reform.

Michael Hiltzik
August 3, 2009

Throughout the heroic struggle in Congress to provide a "public option" in health insurance, one question never seems to get answered: Why are we so intent on protecting the private option?

The "public option," as followers of the debate know, is a government-sponsored health plan that would be available as an alternative to, and in competition with, the for-profit health insurance industry, otherwise known as the private option.

• Congress' own healthcare benefits: Membership has its privileges

On Friday, the House Committee on Energy and Commerce narrowly passed a reform bill incorporating a public option resembling Medicare. It was a bloody fight among members of Congress, some of whom believe that the public option will give the government unwarranted power over healthcare, and all of whom enjoy government-provided healthcare that's a lot better than what most of us get.

But the battle is just beginning. After the committee vote, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi warned that the health insurance industry will conduct a "shock and awe" campaign to kill the public option when Congress returns from vacation in September and starts debating the measure. We can expect to be overwhelmed with an industry ad campaign worth millions of dollars (remember Harry and Louise?) exhorting us to write our lawmakers to preserve the American way of healthcare.

So it's proper to remind ourselves what that American way entails. For if the insurers have proved anything over the last 15 years as the health crisis has gathered speed like an avalanche roaring downhill, it's that they're part of the problem, not the solution.

The firms take billions of dollars out of the U.S. healthcare wallet as profits, while imposing enormous administrative costs on doctors, hospitals, employers and patients. They've introduced complexity into the system at every level. Your doctor has to fight them to get approval for the treatment he or she thinks is best for you. Your hospital has to fight them for approval for every day you're laid up. Then they have to fight them to get their bills paid, and you do too.

One Wendell Potter reminded a Senate committee in June that health insurance executives had assured Congress in 1993 that they would work to secure universal medical coverage and end denials of coverage to people with pre-existing conditions. Then they moved heaven and earth to kill reform.

They've made the same promises now, Potter observed. But they're in an even better position to throttle reform. Mergers and acquisitions have turned the industry into a cartel of huge corporations.

"The industry is bigger, richer and stronger, and it has a much tighter grip on our healthcare system," he said. The last thing they want is a government program set up as their competition.

Potter knows the insurers' ways because he was a top executive in the industry for 20 years. But the hard numbers bear him out. The two largest insurers, WellPoint and UnitedHealth Group, each acquired 11 other insurers between 2000 and 2007. They now control a total of 67 million "covered lives" (that's customers in health insurance-speak).

This consolidation has produced functional monopolies in communities across America. The American Medical Assn. (itself no great fan of reform) found in a 2007 survey that in 76% of the country, defined as its major metropolitan statistical areas, one insurer had a share of 50% or more of the conventional insurance market. This phenomenon gives the companies enormous power to drive up premiums and maximize profits.

Why do we tolerate this? The industry loves to promote surveys indicating that most Americans are "satisfied" with their current health insurance -- 37% are "very satisfied" and 17% "extremely satisfied," according to one such study.

Yet these figures are misleading. Most people are satisfied with their current insurance because most people never have a complex encounter with the health insurance bureaucracy. Medical care generally follows the so-called 80-20 statistical pattern -- 20% of patients consume 80% of care. If your typical encounter is an annual checkup or treatment of the kids' sniffles, or even a serious but routine condition such as a heart attack, your experience is probably satisfactory.

But it's on the margins where the challenges exist. Anyone whose condition is even slightly out of the ordinary knows the sinking feeling of entering health insurance hell -- pre-authorizations, denials, appeals, and days, weeks, even months wasted waiting for resolution.

And that's among people with affordable employer-paid insurance, an ever-shrinking cohort. The percentage of small and medium-sized businesses offering health coverage to employees shriveled to 38% from 67% between 1995 and 2008, according to the National Small Business Assn. Without reform, the number will continue to plummet.

Meanwhile, people employed by big companies that offer a health plan are within a layoff notice of losing coverage for themselves or their families, joining America's 46 million uninsured.

Their only alternative right now is the individual market, where insurers scrutinize applicants' medical histories, looking for reasons to turn them down or charge them exorbitant premiums. Have hay fever, asthma, a cholesterol pill prescription? Are you a woman of child-bearing age? You're virtually uninsurable at an affordable cost.

Even if you're accepted, your carrier reserves the right to cancel your policy retroactively if it finds that you left even a tiny condition from years back off your application.

The public option may be your lifeline -- if it's enacted.

Signs of the industry's mobilization against the public option are everywhere. I don't claim clairvoyance for having predicted this development back in March; given the industry's record on reform, a child could have done so.

You've heard of the Blue Dog Democrats, those mostly rural conservatives who blocked a summertime vote on reform legislation on Capitol Hill? According to the Center for Public Integrity, the biggest backer of the Blue Dogs’ political action committee is the healthcare industry, which is on the path to pumping a total of $1.2 million into the PAC's maw in the current 2009-10 election cycle.

Then there's the advocacy group called the Campaign for an American Solution, which describes itself as "a grass-roots effort . . . to build support for workable healthcare reform." The organization owns up to being an "initiative" of America’s Health Insurance Plans, or AHIP, the industry's chief lobbying arm. Unless I've missed a radical change in lawn and garden horticulture, you can't get much further from the grass roots than to be a creation of the industry with the biggest stake in the debate.

Despite all this, America's health insurance plans, which helped create our dysfunctional world, are deferred to as though they're a disinterested party. AHIP subtitled one of its policy papers "A Vision for Reform." But are the insurers now, and have they ever been, anything other than a roadblock?

Michael Hiltzik's column appears Mondays and Thursdays. Reach him atmichael.hiltzik@latimes.com, read previous columns at www.latimes.com/hiltzik, and follow @latimeshiltzik on Twitter